Can You Shoot 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 Rifle
Since its introduction past Hornady in 2007, the 6.5 Creedmoor (sometimes shortened to Creed) has established a stiff foothold in the US rifle marketplace. The six.5 Creedmoor balances the excellent external ballistics of .264″ diameter bullets with manageable recoil. (FOLLOW US ON FACEBOOK!)
The vi.5 Creedmoor was originally designed as an beyond-the-course high ability rifle cartridge. While it excels at its intended role, the precision burglarize crowd was quick to follow suit and adopt information technology. Among the mutual 6.5mm cartridges, the 6.5×284 Norma has developed a reputation as a barrel burner, 260 Remington has greater case capacity and speed, and the 6.5×47 Lapua is arguably more than authentic with a greater level of panache, just, unlike these others, the 6.5 Creedmoor has readily available factory match grade ammunition for a reasonable price. This allows the new shooter admission to a high performance cartridge, without the expense of reloading.
UPDATED RESULTS HERE: 6.5 Creedmoor- Furnishings of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019
I built a custom six.5 Creedmoor on a Surgeon action and was happy with the results. To see how the rifle above was synthetic, see Building a Custom six.5 Creedmoor Precision Rifle.
I concluded upwards with a finished barrel length of 22″. At the time that seemed like a good idea, just, I was unsure what I gave up from a longer barrel. Given the success of Rifleshooter.com's other barrel length experiments and the surging popularity of the 6.five Creedmoor, I decided it would exist an fantabulous candidate for a barrel length and velocity test.
For this experiment, I built a test gun on a Remington Model Seven receiver with a Dark-green Mount Barrels .264″, 1:8 twist chrome moly barrel bare.
The barrel is untapered, with cutting index grooves machined every inch. Headspace was prepare to minimum.
I ordered the following parts from Brownells:
- Remington Model Seven Receiver
- six.five mm 1:viii twist barrel blank
- MDT LSS Chassis
- Magpul MOE rifle stock
- Timney trigger
- Sako extractor
Earlier we get to the test, take fourth dimension to carefully read the disclaimer below:
The contents of Rifleshooter.com are produced for advisory purposes only and should be performed past competent gunsmiths only. Rifleshooter.com and its authors, exercise non assume any responsibility, direct or indirectly for the safety of the readers attempting to follow whatever instructions or perform whatever of the tasks shown, or the use or misuse of any information contained herein, on this website.
Whatsoever modifications made to a firearm should exist made by a licensed gunsmith. Failure to practice and so may void warranties and result in an unsafe firearm and may cause injury or death.
Modifications to a firearm may issue in personal injury or death, cause the firearm to not function properly, or malfunction, and cause the firearm to become dangerous.
For reloading information: WARNING: The loads shown are for informational purposes only. They are just safe in the rifle shown and may not be safe in yours. Consult appropriate load manuals prior to developing your own handloads. Rifleshooter.com and its authors, exercise not presume whatsoever responsibility, direct or indirectly for the condom of the readers attempting to follow any instructions or perform any of the tasks shown, or the employ or misuse of any information contained herein, on this website.
I selected two unlike kinds of armament to test, a light 120 grain factory load, and a heavier 142 grain hand load.
The light load is represented past the Hornady Lucifer 120 grain A-MAX. This is a pop circular with the mill ammunition crowd, often receiving accolades for operation. All exam ammunition was from the same lot number.
To represent heavier loads, I selected the Sierra 142 grain HPBT MatchKing (#1742). I've had neat results with this bullet in both the 6.5 Creedmoor and six.5×47 Lapua. Using new Hornady brass and CCI #200 large burglarize primers, I loaded the 142 SMK over 41.8 grains of Hodgdon H4350. This load exceeds the 41.5 grain published maximum listed past Hodgdon in their reloading transmission, and then it should only exist considered safe in this gun (reread the disclaimer above).
Examination protocol
The rifle is fired from a demote off a bipod. Five rounds of each type of cartridge are fired at each barrel length and the velocity data is recorded with a MagnetoSpeed V3 butt mounted ballistic chronograph. The rifle is cleared and the barrel is cut back one inch at a time from 27″ to 16″.
The cut is made with a cold saw. Once the cut is completed, the experiment is repeated, until the rifle looks like information technology does in the movie below.
A quick notation on range weather. This test was conducted at 23F. This is notable when comparing velocity figures. While modernistic pulverization tends to be less temperature sensitive than older powders, the low temperature will undoubtedly yield slightly lower velocities than those expected at higher temperatures.
UPDATED RESULTS HERE: half-dozen.v Creedmoor- Effects of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019
Results by cartridge.
For the 120 grain A-MAX, a muzzle velocity of 2961 feet/second was recorded at the 27″ barrel length, and 2728 feet/second at sixteen″ barrel length, resulting in a full decrease of 233 feet/second. The average loss of velocity was 21.eight anxiety/second per inch of barrel. The largest decrease in velocity, 61 feet/2d per inch of barrel was recorded when the butt was cut from nineteen″ to xviii″. When the barrel was cut from xx″ to nineteen″ a 3 feet/2d increase in muzzle velocity was recorded. Boilerplate standard deviation for was 21.3 feet/2d.
For the 142 grain Sierra HPBT MatchKing, a maximum velocity of 2683 feet/2nd was recorded at the 24″ butt length. A velocity of 2663 anxiety/second was recorded at the 27″ barrel length. At the 16″ barrel length, a velocity of 2505 feet/second was recorded. Velocity decreased 158 feet/2d equally the barrel was cut from 27″ to xvi″, or 14.4 anxiety/2nd per inch of barrel length. The velocity reduction from 24″ to 16″ was 178 feet/second, or 16.2 anxiety/second per inch of barrel length. Average standard divergence was 15.vii feet/2nd.
How does barrel length upshot bullet drop and air current drift?
To show how barrel length affects the bullet's flying path, I modeled both cartridges using a ballistic reckoner awarding. I assumed a 100 yard goose egg, scope 1.75″ above the bore, and temperature of 59F. The drop in mils is shown for 200, 400, 600, 800 and i,000 yards. The migrate for a full value ten mile/hour cantankerous air current is shown in mils for 200, 400, 600, 800 and one,000 yards.
For comparison purposes, I included data for a 308 Winchester (shown as 308/22″/175SMK in the tables below) and 300 Winchester Magnum (shown every bit 300/24″/190 SMK in the tables below). The 308 Winchester data is taken from my 22″ 308 Winchester match burglarize using 175 SMKs. The load has a velocity of 2670 feet/2nd, hotter than the published velocities for M118LR in utilize by the US Military. The 300 Winchester Magnum information was obtained using Federal 190 grain Gilt Medal armament in a 24.25″ Shilen barrel with the observed cage velocity of 2892 anxiety/second. Federal advertises the load at 2900 feet/second. The comparison data is shown in the concluding two lines of the tables beneath.
With the 120 A-MAX, there is little lost as the butt length decreases from 27″ to 24″ within of 800 yards. At 1,000 yards, 0.iii mils of elevation and 0.1 mils of drift are sacrificed. Annotation the 6.5 Creedmoor 120 grain A-MAX with a 16″ butt shoots inside of the 308 Winchester 175 grain SMK with a 22″ barrel at i,000 yards! Impressive!
As noted before, the 142 SMK hand load gained velocity equally the barrel length decreased from 27″ to 24″. For purposes of this table, assuming other barrels and loads would exhibit the same decrease, there was no benefit in either velocity, flight path, or drift from a 27″ over a 24″ barrel. The 6.v Creedmoor with 142 SMK and 17″ barrel shot inside the 308 Winchester 175 SMK 22″ barrel out to 1,000 yards. The 308/175 SMK outperformed the 6.5 Creedmoor/142 SMK inside of 800 yards, however, at 1,000 yards the superior characteristics of the 142 SMK allows information technology to perform better.
UPDATED RESULTS Hither: half dozen.v Creedmoor- Furnishings of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019
Discussion:
What exercise yous call back the ideal barrel length is for a 6.5 Creedmoor?
That is a question you have to answer for yourself. Selecting an appropriate barrel length depends on the burglarize's intended application. The needs of a hunter and competitive shooter differ profoundly. While there are velocity, path, and drift benefits to the longer tubes with the lighter bullets at longer ranges, as bullet weight increases these benefits become less apparent. A 24″ tube seems to be a good compromise on the longer terminate, however, a 22″ gun doesn't go out you wanting for much. If the majority of your shooting is inside 600 yards and y'all like short barrels, serious consideration should be given to a 16-18″ butt length (peculiarly in suppressed applications).
For purposes of precision, shorter barrels vibrate (whip) less than longer ones. Anecdotally, Rifleshooter.com has found shorter barrels easier to tune and more precise (they likewise look cooler). Nosotros built quite a few 16″ 308 Winchesters with proficient results, for more on this accept a await at Short and Loud: The xvi inch 308 Win Precision Rifle.
What are possible sources of mistake?
Sample size. Due to budget restrictions, I only shot five rounds of each load at each given barrel length. As sample size increases, so does the validity of the results. For more word on how sample size effects the consequence, please run into the bottom of the 308 Winchester butt length and velocity mail.
This test controlled for the butt, which, in my stance, is better than comparison velocities betwixt different rifles with different barrel lengths.
You didn't use a premium butt for this experiment. Do you recollect this provided slower than expected velocities?
No, I don't recollect information technology did. For the 120 grain A-Max load, Hornady advertises a velocity of 2910 feet/second from a 24″ barrel. I recorded 2918 feet/2nd at 24″. The aforementioned 142 SMK load in my 22″ Bartlein was clocked at 2707 anxiety/second with a SD of 14.1. In the test barrel the load was 2649 feet/second with a SD of 14.9. While the 58 feet/2nd difference suggests this barrel is slower, the Bartlein data was recorded at 80F, while the test data was recorded at 23F. Even though H4350 isn't particularly sensitive to temperature, I would expect to see a similar decrease in velocity if I shot the Bartlein butt in the aforementioned temperature.
What do you think of the velocity decrease observed for the 142 SMK in barrel lengths greater than 24″?
I think this part of the information raises more questions than it answers. I would like to see this experiment repeated with a premium butt and larger sample size. I've conducted this experiment with a 223 Remington, 243 Winchester, 308 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum and 7.62x39mm Russian. Simply with the 7.62x39mm Russian, which has a much smaller case chapters, did I discover a decrease in velocity at the longer barrel lengths. The decrease may be related to the barrel length, notwithstanding, it may also be related to the fact the barrel was new and may have needed more than fouling prior to the exam. The 142 SMK has a much longer bearing surface than the 120 A-MAX, which may assist explicate why this was observed in the 142 SMK but not the 120 A-MAX.
Exercise yous encounter an advantage to a heavier bullet in the 6.5 Creedmoor?
Yes. While a heavier bullet, like the 142 grain Sierra MatchKing drops faster than the 120 grain A-MAX at a given barrel length, the 142 SMK is less wind sensitive. When comparing similar butt lengths, the 142 SMK has .4-.v mils less drift than the 120 A-MAX in ten mph full value crosswind.
Do you lot think the 6.5 Grendel is similar to the 6.five Creedmoor?
No, it isn't even close. I did quite a flake of work with the cartridge, see vi.5 Grendel Review: eighteen″ Special Purpose Rifle. I tested 30 unlike hand loads in an xviii″ barrel. While information technology does fill a niche, information technology fills a small one. I wasn't impressed.
I was considering the six.5×47 Lapua over the 6.5 Creedmoor, what do you think?
If you don't mitt load, or are new to precision rifle shooting, get a 6.5 Creedmoor. If you shoot a lot, reload, have more disposable income, and like more esoteric cartridges, become a 6.5×47 Lapua. I am a large fan of the 6.5×47 Lapua. In my personal experience, the Lapua seems to be slightly more accurate than the Creedmoor. I attribute this to the quality of Lapua brass.
Did you shoot any groups?
No, I did not. I did in the 223 and 300 Win Mag posts, and was shocked with the operation of a saw-cut crown. Even if I had crowned the barrel at a given length, I recollect any accuracy assumptions wouldn't be particularly leading when you gene in changes in barrel harmonics, barrel construction and the shooter's power.
Why didn't you crown the barrel each time you lot cutting it?
Time. My lathe is a two hr round trip to the range. Likewise the fourth dimension, I oasis't noticed whatsoever burrs (real or imagined) left past the saw affecting the velocity of the bullets. If they did, I would take noticed the first circular fired for every butt length slower so the subsequent rounds. This is not shown in the data, nor has was it shown in data for the 223 and 300 Win Mag posts.
What do yous think of the MDT HS3 chassis?
I beloved it. It is a solid value for the money. For more information about the MDT HS3, visit MDT's website hither.
What did you retrieve of the MDT AICS style magazine?
It works great with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I haven't encountered any magazine related issues with it in diverse different firearms. I've run 6.5 Creedmoor, 243 Winchester, 7.62x39mm Russian and 308 Winchester in it and have had great results.
How would you respond to this?
" I besides love the 142 SMK. From a statistical standpoint, the article is bunk. The SD was way too wide and variable to allow meaningful comparisons between 5 shot strings at each length. A great instance of somebody with skill at one thing (guns) but novice at another (experimentation, measurement, statistics) botching the whole thing considering of weaknesses outside his area of expertise. He should take consulted somebody. And he would have had more measurement precision firing x shot strings and cutting off two inches at a time"
Scott, unsure where the novice annotate comes from. I would advise rereading what I wrote every bit information technology was presented. I take an all-encompassing background in statistics and stochastic modeling, and think the standard distribution is over used. Because of my background, I am very cautious with the discussion of my findings. Further, I would challenge you to find a more than similar sets of empirical data that are shared for free with the public. As mentioned above, I agree with sample size. Nonetheless, accept a look at this from my 308 Winchester post, and how the results change with sample size:
Since cage velocity is dependent on pressure, temperature and volume, I attempted to control as many variables as possible given my setting and equipment. By using the same butt, I controlled for bore size, chamber, and headspace- all of which will impact velocity. Since all of the rounds were fired on the same mean solar day, I likewise controlled for ambience temperature. I did non control for butt temperature. The barrel did estrus upward during firing. Past firing the cartridges as soon every bit they were chambered, I attempted to reduce the effect of the hot sleeping room on muzzle velocity.
I think cutting the aforementioned barrel is preferable over comparing unlike barrels of unlike lengths. In my own experience, I've seen two barrels from the same manufacturer, cutting with the aforementioned reamer, shoot the aforementioned velocity with different barrel lengths with identical hand loads. I contribute this to the differences in butt and headspace tolerances. If you've never slugged a bore (pushed a soft lead bullet through a barrel) y'all should, you would be surprised past the variations you can detect in the barrel.
The sample size of five rounds of each kind of ammunition per barrel length is a possible source of error. Yet, testing indicates information technology may not exist as much as initially thought. I fired thirty rounds of IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ at 28″ and xvi.v″ and recorded the results. Comparing the data from the 30 shot strings (28″ 2824 and 16.5″ 2555) to the 5 shot strings (28″ 2823 and sixteen.5″ 2561) I found a loss of 269 ft/sec (23.iv ft/sec per inch) every bit the butt was cutting. This was inside vii ft/sec of the value I generated with the 5 shot strings (262 ft/sec). Velocity loss per inch of barrel was .half dozen ft/sec away (22.8 ft/sec) from the value calculated with v shot strings.
To show how the data set changes with an increase in sample size, I fabricated a table (beneath) with the information from both 30 shot strings. The "shot" cavalcade represents the shot number in the respective string. "28" barrel ft/sec" and "16.five" barrel ft/sec" represents the velocity information for the specific shot number. "AVG 28″ ft/sec" and "AVG xvi.v″ ft/sec" both correspond running average muzzle velocities in ft/sec for a given barrel length. "AVG change ft/sec" shows the divergence between the running averages of the 28″ and sixteen.5″ barrels. "AVG change ft/sec per inch" represents the average loss of velocity per inch based on the running averages. For instance, if I compared the data from row "one", or one shot from the 28″ barrel and ane shot from the sixteen.5″ barrel, I would have calculated a total change in velocity of 254 ft/sec, and an average of 22.1 ft/sec per inch. If I wanted to aggrandize this to a 10 shot sample, I would simply look at row "10" and observe a total change of 265 ft/sec and average loss of 23.0 ft/sec per inch of butt. And so while more reliable results will exist obtained with a larger sample size, the data generated from a smaller sample is still of some use (provided it doesn't contain an outlier- which is why I don't know of anyone using data from single shots).
| 308 Winchester/ vii.62x51mm NATO Comparison of velocity data Rifleshooter.com | ||||||
| Shot | 28″ barrel ft/sec | AVG 28″ barrel ft/sec | 16.v″ barrel ft/sec | AVG 16.five″ butt ft/sec | AVG change ft/sec | AVG change ft/sec per inch |
| 1 | 2835 | 2835 | 2581 | 2581 | 254 | 22.one |
| two | 2814 | 2825 | 2533 | 2557 | 268 | 23.three |
| 3 | 2821 | 2823 | 2541 | 2552 | 272 | 23.6 |
| 4 | 2823 | 2823 | 2551 | 2552 | 272 | 23.6 |
| 5 | 2824 | 2823 | 2601 | 2561 | 262 | 22.viii |
| half dozen | 2834 | 2825 | 2572 | 2563 | 262 | 22.viii |
| 7 | 2811 | 2823 | 2587 | 2570 | 252 | 21.9 |
| eight | 2816 | 2822 | 2546 | 2564 | 258 | 22.5 |
| 9 | 2821 | 2822 | 2545 | 2562 | 260 | 22.6 |
| 10 | 2827 | 2823 | 2520 | 2558 | 265 | 23.0 |
| 11 | 2835 | 2824 | 2584 | 2560 | 264 | 22.9 |
| 12 | 2820 | 2823 | 2592 | 2563 | 261 | 22.seven |
| 13 | 2825 | 2824 | 2554 | 2562 | 261 | 22.vii |
| 14 | 2820 | 2823 | 2551 | 2561 | 262 | 22.8 |
| fifteen | 2842 | 2825 | 2585 | 2563 | 262 | 22.8 |
| sixteen | 2833 | 2825 | 2573 | 2564 | 262 | 22.7 |
| 17 | 2825 | 2825 | 2540 | 2562 | 263 | 22.nine |
| 18 | 2813 | 2824 | 2492 | 2558 | 266 | 23.i |
| 19 | 2791 | 2823 | 2550 | 2558 | 265 | 23.0 |
| twenty | 2797 | 2821 | 2546 | 2557 | 264 | 23.0 |
| 21 | 2836 | 2822 | 2567 | 2558 | 264 | 23.0 |
| 22 | 2850 | 2823 | 2541 | 2557 | 266 | 23.2 |
| 23 | 2826 | 2823 | 2559 | 2557 | 266 | 23.2 |
| 24 | 2842 | 2824 | 2478 | 2554 | 271 | 23.five |
| 25 | 2838 | 2825 | 2537 | 2553 | 272 | 23.6 |
| 26 | 2831 | 2825 | 2569 | 2554 | 271 | 23.6 |
| 27 | 2842 | 2826 | 2601 | 2555 | 270 | 23.5 |
| 28 | 2833 | 2826 | 2534 | 2555 | 271 | 23.6 |
| 29 | 2796 | 2825 | 2578 | 2555 | 269 | 23.four |
| 30 | 2810 | 2824 | 2536 | 2555 | 270 | 23.4 |
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UPDATED RESULTS HERE: 6.5 Creedmoor- Effects of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019
Source: https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-creedmoor-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/
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